Third excerpt from Thompson’s “Personality Type” and some from Jaxon-Bear
November 23rd, 2006 by rivercrow
I’d like to continue my comparison of INTP and Enneagram 5. Although a preference for INTP does not necessarily mean a preference for Enneagram 5, I think this is a case of exception proving the rule.
The previous excerpts from Thompson are followed by:
INTPs who make a deliberate attempt to apply Extraverted Intuition to themselves feel an immediate sense of conflict. Like Extraverted Thinkers, these types confuse their ability to be impersonal with the ability to be objective, and Intuition is usually their first recognition that objectivity has nothing to do with removing oneself from the situation. It offers them an image of themselves as part of the larger picture, with effects on others that can’t be entirely calculated and a dependence on others that is not entirely under their control. INTPs ultimately get in touch with their Feeling function this way–through their Intuitive objectivity.
Compare this to Jaxon-Bear’s statements regarding the Trap of E5:
The Trap for the Five is being the observer. In this way, they stay disengaged from life. I know several Fives who practice Buddhist meditation. Taking the Buddha’s dictum of nonattachment as their path, they believe they are unattached to the world. Yet, when confronted by this Enneagram system, they often admit to being attached to nonattachment.
Jaxon-Bear adds that the Five “loves to be a fly on the wall” and seem to observe the rest of their social gatherings “like an owl on a perch.” Fives are reclusive–they hoard themselves away from the world.
An INTP who is also an E5 has a terrible tendency for withdrawal and distancing. Overcoming this tendency requires self-knowledge, humility, and a willingness to acknowledge that the INTP cannot rely on intelligence-gathering to find resolution.
The late Corita Kent, an American artist noted for her silk-screen prints, offers a nice illustration of this perspective in her description of her work:
A painting [is] a symbol for the universe. Inside it, each piece relates to the other. Each piece is…answerable to the rest of that little world. So, probably in the total universe, there is that kind of total harmony, but we get only little tastes of it…. That’s why people listen to music or look at paintings. To get in touch with that wholeness.
INTPs who come to terms with relationship by way of Intuition recognize their responsibility to others in the way Kent describes. They feel answerable to the people who share their situation. Such types have a strong sense of purpose, but they don’t feel the need to calculate their behaviors in terms of logical probability alone. They recognize the existence of the unpredictable and the improbable: those aspects of life that require a leap of faith, or the ability to trust someone besides themselves.
Trust and dependency are hurdles for both INTPs and E5s. Both require admission that the individual is not alone and is part of a social web where nonattachment and logic tools are insufficient. This is a terrifying realization.
Myers-Briggs Type theory holds that as the individual ages, the less preferred Functions are used more often. Assuming this is true, I think there may be a certain amount of life experience required before the individual can relax into trust and interdependence. I suspect that attempts to will advancement before the individual has a sufficient body of experience can backfire–similar to how attempts to traverse the middle passage before the psyche is ready will fail.
Eli Jaxon-Bear, The Enneagram of Liberation
Lenore Thompson, Personality Type
2 Responses to “Third excerpt from Thompson’s “Personality Type” and some from Jaxon-Bear”
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I agree with your saying that a certain amount of life experience is necessary to move into trust and interdependence.
I think the most important thing for success for an INTP is to be taught that our way of thinking is not the norm. This is an important hurdle to our understanding. Once we understand that the majority is not thinking or viewing things, especially systems, the way we do; we can better adapt our presentation of our ideas and can move ahead in our careers without having to wait for the life experience.
We still need the life experience, but when we learn what we need to go through, I think it makes it easier to recognize the signposts along the way. Also, we can minimize our mistakes. We need to understand our ability to see things beyond the transactional mentality of the majority of human beings. This is a huge benefit to any organization, but we need to know how to get our points across without alienating the other types who usually have more power than we do.
It could be viewed as manipulation, but if our ideas are better than the current ones in use, then it is okay to use manipulation to improve the organization. Of course, the assumption is that we truly have the best interests of the organization in mind. And that ethical behavior is what is being condoned here.
Ok I’m not an INTP 5. What grabs me is the connection to INTP 9s. I think this goes to proove that when it comes down to the tactics and what we actually do in our heads that MBTI is the tool to use where as the enneagram is more what we are trying to achieve.
I think our Mr Clark’s point is most astute in that such logical and seemingly objective thinkers as INTPs we can fall into the trap of thinking that our methods are the best as we can often seem to be really clever and get lots of pats on the head for our brains (that really doesn’t help). When confronted with a different method of thinking we therefore conclude that it is inferior and any results garnered from it are the result of unforseen events or nuances which we missed as we are so far past such minor details. It’s a shame really as I’d think that we could use being more flexible in our thinking from as early a stage as possible. IF we could learn to feel and have values without being overly sensitive and not covering up our sensitive areas with ridiculous robotic parodies then we’d have an easier and more enjoyable time of youth.
Personally I think that INTPs grow best when they learn to use F and grow comfortable in extroverted situations. Hard introverts are difficult to engage and so this increases the appearence of the INTPs withdrawn nature. Hard Ts are often cold and calculating, failing to take into account their full effect on people and becoming nervous and awkward in any personal situations. With a little more F an INTP can be as warm and friendly as a st. bernard pup and with more E they can be as playful and boisterous as any staffie.
The N I’ve not seen to be a great problem. Sure the inattention to details and the immediate situation can be a pain but generally falling on ones face usually leads to the person being more attentive in the future and is a lesson quickly learned.
Being a P I find a major pain as it’s so difficult to stay content or happy. Because my mood and mindset are always in context to the situation, as soon as the atmosphere changes so too do I. I’ve tried to learn to be more J. To be decisive and to be forceful when called upon. I can use parts of ESFJ (apparently the path to development for an INTP) and decide on a path and then persue it in a most direct and bullish manner. Apparently such flipsided behaviour is good.
Ooo I wonder if those of us who seem confused are struggling to integrate the two halves and are actualy progressing nicely even though we may feel like about six people crammed into too small a space?
Anyhow, I don’t think that INTPs are particularly suited to being a 5 over any other type (well except perhaps the enthusiast, though there are elements of this within all INTPs). What I think is more true is that the 5 strategy is perhaps better suited to the INTP. In other words we can better keep the ideal situations for a 5 than say an ENFP.
Not sure I flipped that right but hopefully you get my drift.